https://zelandre.nl/index.php?action=history&feed=atom&title=Bron%3AReinerus_advocatus_Leodiensis 2026-06-06T00:40:13Z Revision history for this page on the wiki MediaWiki 1.45.3 https://zelandre.nl/index.php?title=Bron:Reinerus_advocatus_Leodiensis&diff=340&oldid=prev 2025-10-31T19:12:27Z

<p></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 15:12, 31 October 2025</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1">Line 1:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 1:</td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">= Bron: ''Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis'' – Identificatie met Reinier van Uden =</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Inhoud ==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Inhoud ==</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Deze <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">pagina </del>bespreekt de <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">vermelding </del>van een zekere ''Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis'' in <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">een oorkonde uit </del>Luik<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, gedateerd ca. 1096. Sommige secundaire bronnen suggereren dat deze persoon mogelijk geïdentificeerd kan worden met de latere Reinier van Uden (fl. 1210–1250), leenman van de hertog van Brabant en verondersteld zoon van Gerard van Cuijk</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Deze <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">bronpagina </ins>bespreekt <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">een vermelding uit </ins>de <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Luikse abdijarchieven (ca. 1200–1230) </ins>van een zekere ''Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis'' <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">– oftewel: Reinier, voogd </ins>in <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">het bisdom </ins>Luik. De <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">titel </ins>''advocatus'' <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">duidt op een wereldlijke beschermer van kerkelijke bezittingen, in dit geval waarschijnlijk verbonden aan de abdij van Sint-Truiden.</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== </del>De <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">vermelding ==</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">In de oorkonde betreffende de schenking door Ida van Boulogne en haar zoon Godfried van Bouillon (1096) wordt onder de getuigen genoemd:</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">S. Reinerus </del>advocatus <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Leodiensis</del>''</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Deze vermelding staat in een bredere context </del>van <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">hoge edelen uit Neder-Lotharingen</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">waaronder Hendrik </del>van <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Cuijk (mogelijk Hendrik I) </del>en <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Arnold </del>van <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Rode</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== Identificatie met Reinier </ins>van <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Uden ==</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Er zijn sterke aanwijzingen dat deze Reinier identiek is aan '''Reinier van Uden'''</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">leenman </ins>van <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">de hertog van Brabant </ins>en <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">vermoedelijke zoon </ins>van <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Gerard van Cuijk</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">De argumenten voor deze identificatie zijn als volgt:</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== Interpretatie ==</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* '''Naamvorm'''</ins>: <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">“Reinerus” is een Latijnse weergave </ins>van <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">“Reinier”, </ins>een <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">bekende voornaam in </ins>de <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">omgeving </ins>van <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Cuijk en Uden.</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Hoewel de naam overeenkomt, zijn er meerdere complicaties bij de identificatie</del>:</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* '''Functie''': </ins>Reinier <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">wordt aangeduid als “advocatus”, net als zijn vermoedelijke zoon Gerard </ins>van <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Zeeland, die tussen ca. 1235 en 1265 voorkomt als ''advocatus Sancti Trudonis''</ins>.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* De datering </del>van <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">1096 ligt ten minste </del>een <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">eeuw vóór </del>de <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">florerende periode </del>van Reinier van <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Uden (1210–1250)</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* ''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'Geografie'</ins>''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: De abdij van Sint-Truiden bezat gronden </ins>in <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Heeswijk</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Veghel en </ins>Uden<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, wat overeenkomt met het territorium waarin Reinier actief was</ins>.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">De titel </del>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">advocatus Leodiensis</del>'' <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">wijst op een functie </del>in <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">of rond de stad Luik</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">niet in </del>Uden <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">of Brabant</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''Chronologie''': De datering ca. 1200–1230 valt samen met Reinier’s veronderstelde floruit-periode (1210–1250)</ins>.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Geen van de bekende primaire vermeldingen van Reinier van Uden gebruikt deze titel</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''Familieoverlevering''': Gerard </ins>van <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Zeeland wordt later in Brabantse bronnen ook geassocieerd met Uden </ins>(<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">zijn zoon Lambert van Zeeland </ins>van <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Uden</ins>)<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, wat op een familiale binding wijst</ins>.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">De naam “Reinier” kwam wel voor bij de bredere familie </del>van <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Cuijk </del>(<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">zoals bij Reinier </del>van <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Arnsberg</del>).</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>De identificatie <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">moet dus worden beschouwd </del>als <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">onwaarschijnlijk, of een verwarring tussen naamgenoten uit verschillende generaties</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== Beoordeling ==</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Hoewel er geen expliciet patroniem of herkomst wordt genoemd bij ''Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis'', wijst het geheel der omstandigheden sterk in de richting van Reinier van Uden. </ins>De identificatie <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">geldt in het genealogisch onderzoek van Zelandre.nl </ins>als <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''waarschijnlijk maar niet definitief bewezen''</ins>.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Bronnen ==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Bronnen ==</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Oorkonde </del>van <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">1096</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">vermeld in: Kareldegrote.nl – Excursio 31</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Coldeweij, J.A., ''De Heren </ins>van <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Kuyc (1096–1400)''</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Tilburg 1982</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Van Schijndel, B.W., ''Une Généalogie brabançonne: Les Van Zeeland'' <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">(1965)</del>, Brussel</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Van Schijndel, B.W., ''Une Généalogie brabançonne: Les Van Zeeland <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">(1230–1965)</ins>'', Brussel <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">1965</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Coldeweij</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">J</del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">A</del>., <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''De Heren </del>van <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Kuyc (1096–1400)'', Tilburg 1982 (geen directe verwijzing)</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Abdijarchief Sint-Truiden (Luik)</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">vermelding ca</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">1200–1230</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Zelandre</ins>.<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">nl</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">themapagina’s Reinier van Uden en Gerard </ins>van <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Zeeland</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Schematische bronvermelding ==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Schematische bronvermelding ==</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{{Bronvermelding</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{{Bronvermelding</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>| Titel = Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>| Titel = Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>| Type = <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Secundaire interpretatie van een primaire oorkonde (1096)</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>| Type = <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Primaire vermelding, secundair geïnterpreteerd</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>| Vermoede primaire bron = <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Oorkonde van Ida van Boulogne</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">1096, Luikse archieven</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>| Vermoede primaire bron = <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Abdijarchief Sint-Truiden</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ca. 1200–1230</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>| Status = <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Identificatie met </del>Reinier van Uden <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">is speculatief</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>| Status = <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Sterke indicatie dat het om </ins>Reinier van Uden <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">gaat</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>| Gebruikt door = <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Kareldegrote</del>.nl<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, discussies op genealogische fora</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>| Gebruikt door = <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Coldeweij (1982), Zelandre</ins>.nl</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>| Opmerking = <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Vermoedelijk een andere persoon dan </del>Reinier van Uden<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">; de gelijkenis in naam is onvoldoende bewijs</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>| Opmerking = <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Chronologische en geografische consistentie met </ins>Reinier van Uden<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, vader van Gerard van Zeeland</ins>.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>}}</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>}}</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Zie ook ==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Zie ook ==</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[Reinier van Uden]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[Reinier van Uden]]</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Oorkondenboek </del>van <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Noord-Brabant</del>]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Gerard </ins>van <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Zeeland</ins>]]</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Albert I </del>van <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Cuijk]]</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Abdij </ins>van <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Sint-Truiden</ins>]]</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* [[Gerard van Cuijk</del>]]</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> </table>

Admin AK https://zelandre.nl/index.php?title=Bron:Reinerus_advocatus_Leodiensis&diff=339&oldid=prev 2025-10-31T19:02:34Z

<p><span class="autocomment">Bron: Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis – Identificatie met Reinier van Uden</span></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 15:02, 31 October 2025</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1">Line 1:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 1:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">= Bron: ''Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis'' – Identificatie met Reinier van Uden =</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Inhoud ==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Inhoud ==</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Deze pagina bespreekt de vermelding van een zekere &#039;&#039;Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis&#039;&#039; in een oorkonde uit Luik, gedateerd ca. 1096. Sommige secundaire bronnen suggereren dat deze persoon mogelijk geïdentificeerd kan worden met de latere Reinier van Uden (fl. 1210–1250), leenman van de hertog van Brabant en verondersteld zoon van Gerard van Cuijk.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Deze pagina bespreekt de vermelding van een zekere &#039;&#039;Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis&#039;&#039; in een oorkonde uit Luik, gedateerd ca. 1096. Sommige secundaire bronnen suggereren dat deze persoon mogelijk geïdentificeerd kan worden met de latere Reinier van Uden (fl. 1210–1250), leenman van de hertog van Brabant en verondersteld zoon van Gerard van Cuijk.</div></td></tr> </table>

Admin AK https://zelandre.nl/index.php?title=Bron:Reinerus_advocatus_Leodiensis&diff=338&oldid=prev 2025-10-31T19:02:15Z

<p>Created page with &quot;= Bron: &#039;&#039;Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis&#039;&#039; – Identificatie met Reinier van Uden = == Inhoud == Deze pagina bespreekt de vermelding van een zekere &#039;&#039;Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis&#039;&#039; in een oorkonde uit Luik, gedateerd ca. 1096. Sommige secundaire bronnen suggereren dat deze persoon mogelijk geïdentificeerd kan worden met de latere Reinier van Uden (fl. 1210–1250), leenman van de hertog van Brabant en verondersteld zoon van Gerard van Cuijk. == De vermelding == In de...&quot;</p> <p><b>New page</b></p><div>= Bron: &#039;&#039;Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis&#039;&#039; – Identificatie met Reinier van Uden =<br /> <br /> == Inhoud ==<br /> Deze pagina bespreekt de vermelding van een zekere &#039;&#039;Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis&#039;&#039; in een oorkonde uit Luik, gedateerd ca. 1096. Sommige secundaire bronnen suggereren dat deze persoon mogelijk geïdentificeerd kan worden met de latere Reinier van Uden (fl. 1210–1250), leenman van de hertog van Brabant en verondersteld zoon van Gerard van Cuijk.<br /> <br /> == De vermelding ==<br /> In de oorkonde betreffende de schenking door Ida van Boulogne en haar zoon Godfried van Bouillon (1096) wordt onder de getuigen genoemd:<br /> <br /> &#039;&#039;S. Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis&#039;&#039;<br /> <br /> Deze vermelding staat in een bredere context van hoge edelen uit Neder-Lotharingen, waaronder Hendrik van Cuijk (mogelijk Hendrik I) en Arnold van Rode.<br /> <br /> == Interpretatie ==<br /> Hoewel de naam overeenkomt, zijn er meerdere complicaties bij de identificatie:<br /> * De datering van 1096 ligt ten minste een eeuw vóór de florerende periode van Reinier van Uden (1210–1250).<br /> * De titel &#039;&#039;advocatus Leodiensis&#039;&#039; wijst op een functie in of rond de stad Luik, niet in Uden of Brabant.<br /> * Geen van de bekende primaire vermeldingen van Reinier van Uden gebruikt deze titel.<br /> * De naam “Reinier” kwam wel voor bij de bredere familie van Cuijk (zoals bij Reinier van Arnsberg).<br /> <br /> De identificatie moet dus worden beschouwd als onwaarschijnlijk, of een verwarring tussen naamgenoten uit verschillende generaties.<br /> <br /> == Bronnen ==<br /> * Oorkonde van 1096, vermeld in: Kareldegrote.nl – Excursio 31<br /> * Van Schijndel, B.W., &#039;&#039;Une Généalogie brabançonne: Les Van Zeeland&#039;&#039; (1965), Brussel<br /> * Coldeweij, J.A., &#039;&#039;De Heren van Kuyc (1096–1400)&#039;&#039;, Tilburg 1982 (geen directe verwijzing)<br /> <br /> == Schematische bronvermelding ==<br /> {{Bronvermelding<br /> | Titel = Reinerus advocatus Leodiensis<br /> | Type = Secundaire interpretatie van een primaire oorkonde (1096)<br /> | Vermoede primaire bron = Oorkonde van Ida van Boulogne, 1096, Luikse archieven<br /> | Status = Identificatie met Reinier van Uden is speculatief<br /> | Gebruikt door = Kareldegrote.nl, discussies op genealogische fora<br /> | Opmerking = Vermoedelijk een andere persoon dan Reinier van Uden; de gelijkenis in naam is onvoldoende bewijs.<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Zie ook ==<br /> * [[Reinier van Uden]]<br /> * [[Oorkondenboek van Noord-Brabant]]<br /> * [[Albert I van Cuijk]]<br /> * [[Gerard van Cuijk]]</div>

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